During an interview on Meet the Press, Trump’s senior advisor Kellyanne Conway stood up for White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer on Sunday by claiming that he was providing “alternative facts” about how many people attended President Donald Trump’s inauguration.

Host Chuck Todd questioned Conway about why Spicer thought he needed to chastise the press for accurately pointing out that President Barack Obama’s 2008 inauguration had a much larger crowd than Trump’s.

“Don’t be so overly dramatic about it, Chuck,” Conway scoffed. “They’re saying it’s a falsehood and our press secretary, Sean Spicer, gave alternative facts to that.”

“Wait a minute,” Todd jumped in. “Alternative facts! Four of the five facts that he uttered were just not true. Alternative facts are not facts, they’re falsehoods.”

Conway tried to change the subject, but Todd pressed on: “You sent the press secretary out there to utter a falsehood on the smallest, pettiest thing. And I don’t understand why you did it.”

“I don’t think you can prove those numbers one way or the other,” the Trump aide said. “You can laugh at me all you want. You are, and I think it’s actually symbolic of the way we’re treated by the press. I’ll just ignore it. I’m bigger than that. I’m a kind and gracious person.”